Talk:Ken Kaneki/@comment-3173617-20160330063241/@comment-27376148-20160330123955

Thanks for pointing that out lia -

I also think the main influence on that roof was Eto rather then Karren, she used Karren more to play with Kaneki (bc apparently watching him fighting his former comrad wasnt enough) she abducted and tortured her especially for this encounter and I'm quite sure Kaneki knows that Eto was the force behind, also after Karren and Shuu were knocked out it was Eto against Kaneki for a while and I think that did a huge blow on him not physically but mentally (i think he stated in the past that violence on a physical level doesnt hurt as much as on a psychological level - as in jasons room he endured a lot of pain but broke when he saw mother and son be killed)

So putting his return of memories aside for a moment, Eto not only caused everything from the point on Karren appeared on that roof but also but then chased him raging, spilling confusing phrases, telling him they are alike and that she loves hin (sense things shes doing are based on that feelings) caused him the main trauma imo. Its striking throughout the manga that words have a major influence on Kaneki going from that:

Eto was (and still is) a person he sees as an antagonist and has to be eliminated. If she says they are similar and he finds it to be true that means he is also a presence like her that should not be living (hence this arc).

Also Eto doesnt seem to value her life which is also a trait Kaneki shows. They are both trying to set sth up which probably includes their own death for what they think a greater thing then their own life (i can only guess but Eto hasnt planned anything, she said everything is said and done already and has no further plans for herself as far as im informed)

And if Kaneki came to the conclusion they are in fact alike it would make sense for his Kakuja to form after hers.

So in conclusion both physical trauma, to the regain of his memories as the implying of thoughts afterwards were outcomes from Etos action so imo she is the cause of his trauma and Karren just played an instrumental role.