Talk:Tooru Mutsuki/Article guidelines/@comment-32222793-20170607003635/@comment-31606823-20180702030257

(more spoilers, last warning i’m doing bc really, two other 5000 paragraph posts above also state the same)

To state again, this is only an opinion of mine, I under no means want to change people’s feelings about the character just to inform about canon things and then later my own opinion, I hope you too share that view with me.

So to start I’ll start with the confusion between us. I know that you aren’t op but I understand why you just said “*she” and equal pronouns to gender, from my basic understanding of french it’s just as gendered in words as japanese and I under no way fault you for that, I’m fairly sorry for getting snappy about the pronouns, how I was raised they were more add ons I guess. For the phase “set the bar low” it’s more to people who rather than have a meaningful conversation just yell at me how I’m wrong, you are one of the few people who take me up in just talking which puts you much above other people I’ve talked to and I meant no ill will by the comment. With that out of the way let’s get back to points!

“She doesn't dislike her female body but just when people are watching her female body.” Is right but also wrong. While he clearly dislikes people watching him while presenting as a female, Mutsuki hasn’t in canon shown a likeness to his body, it doesn’t go too much towards any of our either sides but if you can give me some scans that mention his body I’d honestly love that. However, in same likeliness of this point of dressing as female, I’ll nab a quote from chapter 13, “I’m not like these men. I just.. Don’t like it [staring]..”, the “..these men…” implying that Tooru does have some association to being male. ( source: https://i.imgur.com/3LfBuyP.png )

“I never saw any hate for women.” A few times it happened mostly during his breakdown, but I do rather understand this is one of my weakest points and it’s mostly my interpretation I have some proof. The “I hate women.” is in quote of chapter 123 during his fight with Touka. ( source: https://i.imgur.com/0hmFGNQ.png ) The other time it’s said is after he killed the fake Sasaki but less towards anyone else and more himself, calling what he think is ‘love’ “Embarrassingly female”, another dissociation from his assigned gender. ( source: https://i.imgur.com/UbnhJzi.png ) I do now stand corrected with points about Akira because of what you said, I understand I read into it probably too much and Tooru's actions are more valid to me if I look at it with more open eyes. (And while I can’t find it I swear Mutsuki mentioned women being whores but I can’t find so either I’m blind or it didn’t happen, I’m saying it only now because someone might know if it happened or not but this is 100% not fact or in my actual argument until I find proof it happened.)

I highly agree with you being trans isn’t an illness but being born in the wrong body, I myself am a transgender person and my label is far from just an illness. What I meant to get with that point is that Tooru is definitely mentally disturbed but the more stable version of him isn’t just a mask and outfit, it still is him, when the other quinxs’ snap him out and back to a ‘stable’ state he understands all the stuff he has done is wrong, attempting to kill himself and after avoiding the sick Kaneki. (sources: https://i.imgur.com/1vF6ZPD.png and https://i.imgur.com/IA5w609.png ) Neither side is pretend or a lie, he is both the soft spoken investigator and a love thirsty killer, still making his presenting as male valid.

It’s been rather nice talking this out and seeing your side, while I’m in the same boat of not likely to change opinion it’s nice to have a civil conversation with someone on this topic that ain’t just a rude jerk.