Talk:Ken Kaneki/@comment-26653902-20151108213555/@comment-26653902-20151108231510

@Higher Mind

I'm sorry, but I don't recall ever copy-pasting between articles before here???? I had posted earlier on the Arima article and figured it's relevant here as well. I was curious about different input here since this is the most active page. I wanted to see what challenges people have for this and elaborate further based on those challenges.

Also, I don't hate Touka??? I thought it was clear from my phrasing that we understand why she did what she did. I didn't even know about the early hate she got, and no one else who's read this post brought it up.

Ironically, I actually compared this hate elsewhere to the one Touka got when she made her stance on Kaneki's memories clear to Shuu. I'm just waiting for that to happen again with anothe revelation.

I don't deny Arima has sadistic tendencies, but if one thing holds true in Tokyo Ghoul, it's that no one is one-dimensional. It's important to keep in mind that this flashback likely happened somewhere during the timeskip (and it is also likely that part of it was hallucinated going off the flowers in the last panel of the scene). A lot could have changed since then.

If he saw Haise as an tool in the past, he probably doesn't now from what we've seen of their relationship as of the Christmas party. And I don't deny that Arima's training method was pretty questionable despite its effectiveness. There would probably be a few mental scars as we can see how Haise took it (though it did fulfill its purpose of keeping him alive in that situation). I'm not excusing any of his actions, and I would appreciate it if people didn't automatically assume I think he's a pure angel because I'm countering the hate. Obviously, he's not. Haise isn't even the first trainee he treated badly *cough* Hirako *cough*

My whole reason behind doing this is that I was seriously irked by how kneejerk the hate is and how practically no one seemed to consider the possibility I keep repeating. What happened to the people who believed Arima's feelings were genuine? They seemed to have switched sides right away without thinking. I actually had people say that they didn't even consider the possibility until I laid it out for them.

Really, what bothered me is not just the usual Arima haters (I'm used to them and usually ignore), but before, I saw lots of people liking Arima. Then this chapter happened and suddenly there's a huge 180 (heck, people actually said they didn't like Arima anymore because of this).

@Dalaios - And how do you know Arima wasn't using the sink-or-swim method this time? Look, I've said before that this is a much extreme version of that training and despite how cruel it seems, it did have payoff.

I didn't include it in that post, but the "Kill Arima" bit was most likely a culmination of the killing intent. Arima deliberately provoked him then to bring out that killing intent. As soon as Haise was placed in a similar position by Kanae, he was triggered into feeling it again, hence that reaction. I am pretty sure what we saw was actually what happened after Arima asked if he wanted to die.

Everyone's already pointing to that scene and saying how it proves that Arima is a monster. I was just bringing in a much needed detailed counterargument.

Once again, I don't deny Arima could truly be treating Haise as a tool. But we don't have enough information to say it's definitive, and on top of that, there already were some hints of a gentler side to him. There's no evidence on whether or not it's genuine, so it'd be nice if people stopped treating it like fact.

There, I generated new content; exactly like how I do with every argument.