Board Thread:Questions and Answers/@comment-31190419-20170130180218/@comment-31190419-20170201023602

In response to Harostar:

''' Argument #1: Ishida did not draw the body in every panel. ''' – This is not my argument at all, and in fact a misrepresentation of it. My argument has nothing to do with “every panel” but rather refers to a specific (Ch 92) panel, the one that is clearly in the same location that Tatara’s presumed corpse is shown in a previous (Ch 89) panel. There are unique identifiers that connect the scenes together, most obviously the investigator with feet sticking out of the window, not to mention a chair, 2 more dead investigators, and the architecture in general. Forgetting Tatara in this panel is like forgetting Jesus in your rendition of the Last Supper, when the rest of it has been so meticulously matched with the Ch 89 panel. As you can see from my graphic linked below, this scene was not cherry-picked, but rather it was chosen because it is the same location, in the future, after Tatara’s corpse was supposedly resting there.



 Argument #2: Dramatic Final Moment –  Tatara’s Last Stand is a fan theory, and an interpretation. Extrapolating anything from something so tenuous creates a double standard if you are to choose that as your evidence over harder, more concrete material.



 Argument #3: Stated/Treated dead by others 

   

''' All parties present treat him as having died. '''



 This, in its totality, is a fan theory and an interpretation, which seems like the kind of speculation that you try to avoid when making decisions.



 There are two conflicting hypotheses here concerning the Chapter 89 happenings:

 A (null hypothesis): Tatara is defeated, unconscious, helpless/disabled, and at the mercy of the characters on the scene

 B (alternative hypothesis): Tatara is dead



 When making an argument to affirm something that happens, the evidence presented should be able to work against the most obvious cases where it doesn’t happen (e.g. in this example, Tatara being alive in some debilitated, unconscious form is a good null hypothesis)



<p class="MsoNoSpacing"> Takizawa declares that now "Aogiri is basically dead –  The translation I am reading says that “This is basically like finishing off Aogiri Tree, y’know?”  Why wouldn’t defeating Tatara and being able to do whatever he wants with him (including kill him) lead to the same reaction?  Not to mention that this would not be a first-case scenario of something like this happening.  Kaneki defeating Yamori (Juuzou had to finish him off), Arima defeating Kaneki, multiple ghouls being captured and imprisoned, etc.  There is a consistent theme of characters being defeated, and left helpless, but not actually killed.

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<p class="MsoNoSpacing">''' and discusses how he dreamed of this day, when he'd kill Tatara. – ''' This leaves out crucial parts of his monologue, such as “making me a hero…” when he was clearly not made a hero. Why take the leap of faith and assume that he is confirming part of the dream happened, when you can’t use that same logic for other parts of the dream? At face value, you can only use to take his quote as saying that “killing Tatara, saving the CCG, making me a hero” was something that could have happened had Houji Squad cooperated with him, and that he feels it is regrettable that the particular sequence of events didn’t happen.

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<p class="MsoNoSpacing"> Houji no longer considers him an active target –  According to the null hypothesis, he is not an active target, so Houji no longer considering him an active target would hardly show what you are trying to show. Why wouldn’t he react similarly if Tatara is simply unable to fight? Nothing about this implies death.

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<p class="MsoNoSpacing">''' The infamous #2 of Aogiri is not again mentioned after that, not by any of the other parties that come charging into the scene to fight. – '''

<p class="MsoNoSpacing"> As I showed in my graphic, this can actually be seen as evidence that Tatara’s dead body wasn’t in the Ch 92 scene. And I think Tatara not being physically present in the scene makes a solid null hypothesis here, so I will take your arguments as evidence against that supposition.

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<p class="MsoNoSpacing">  In my opinion, the fact that the “infamous #2” (who was probably actually seen more as a #1, considering that he was the primary target and ranked above Eto), wasn’t mentioned is good evidence that he is, at the very least, absent from the scene where you are presuming he died, supporting the null hypothesis. Clearly you are taking it in one direction to support your fan theory, and I am taking it in another direction to support my fan theory, but when evidence can’t be taken in multiple directions, I think we should be able to agree that it is extremely tenuous when used as support of an affirmative stance (e.g., being dead or alive, rather than unknown).

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<p class="MsoNoSpacing"> the Quinx do not consider him a threat  – If Tatara is not in the room which my obvious null hypothesis states, the Quinx will not see him as a threat. In fact, they don’t seem to see him at all.

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<p class="MsoNoSpacing">''' Tomoe makes no effort to bring him with them on their only chance to escape the island. – ''' Tomoe is pretty debilitated at this point, but doesn’t even have to be. The null hypothesis I am working from states that Tatara isn’t in the room, so obviously she can’t try to save him if he isn’t in the room.

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<p class="MsoNoSpacing"> And as an aside, you ask the question of “why doesn’t Tomoe try to save Tatara?”, but why not ask the question “why does Tomoe not show any emotions of questioning, disgust, or anger at Takizawa?”  If Tatara were dead and in the room, Tomoe’s non-reaction would be a bit abnormal, but considering her possible weak consciousness I think that angle can only be seen as tenuous evidence in support of Tatara’s corpse not being in the room, as she could just be mentally out of it.

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<p class="MsoNoSpacing">''' We are told 2% of Aogiri's forces survived, with no mention of Tatara having escaped. – ''' We are told that 98% of Aogiri’s forces were exterminated, with no mention of Tatara having died. I am trying my best not to spin the narrative unfairly toward the direction of Tatara’s status being unknown, but rather to show that for many of these questions that you present in favor of him being deceased, there are equally compelling questions that can be presented in favor of him being not only unknown, but actually alive, if we are to use similar deductive processes on both sides of the argument.